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Good morning, Dr. Harvey. Good morning, Dr. Maltzberg. How are you doing?
Not too bad. So what are we talking about today?
Oh, yeah, yeah. So what we're talking about today is, well, we're going to actually be talking about hors d'oeuvres today, but there's a backstory for why we're talking about hors d'oeuvres.
Hmm. Obviously, hors d'oeuvres are relevant to TMS because...
Yes, the connection is obvious. Don't you see it? Yeah, but I'll tell you what the connection is there. One of the recent episodes we did, one of the main things we emphasized is if you're going to be working in the TMS space, it's just really, really important to connect with other people who are doing TMS. You know, so you can kind of get the inside scoop and, you know, learn about, you know, the different device makers and what they're like and learn about new protocols and just all sorts of things.
So it's just very important to try to be connected and to know other people. And so right after we did that episode, I was at the meeting of the Clinical TMS Society in Boston. And the meeting was great. So, you know, I wanted to talk to some of the other people at the meeting and get some of that on the podcast. But it occurred to me that, you know, I think we were doing, you know, the meeting was like all, you know, wall-to-wall science all the time.
So instead of asking the people about science, I just thought I'd ask them about the hors d'oeuvres.
Interesting. So it sounds like you're saying it's important to make friends. It doesn't come natural to all of us.
It does not. No, no, it sure doesn't. It sure doesn't. But I think people who work in TMS are also looking to have people to talk to to talk about TMS and everything. So that certainly makes it easier. And certainly being part of an organization like the Clinical TMS Society is a big help.
Yeah, I think community is so important. So yeah, I'm curious. Talk to me a little bit about the conference.
Yeah, yeah. So the conference was, gosh, what was it? It was two or three days or so. And there was a lot of, there's been a lot of recent research in TMS, you know, Part of it is TMS for other indications, like TMS for cognitive functioning in Alzheimer's disease, TMS for schizophrenia, both for negative symptoms and also for auditory hallucinations, TMS for chronic fatigue syndrome. There's a lot of recent buzz about targeting other areas of the brain, like some of the posterior targets, like the posterior parietal and things like that, which is All new to me.
And there's a lot of excitement around D-cycloserine, and there's a really good talk about the physics of TMS. There's also a research poster session where people presented their research. So there's research in just about anything you can imagine. And there are, I think, more than 70 posters, more than 70 research posters. So there's just a whole lot going on there. And it was exciting to see how much good science there is going on with TMS recently.
That's not super cool. It reminds me, one thing I love about conferences is you get the whole mix from like super practical, you know, the stuff that's going on now to the very futuristic stuff. I remember I went to a conference in medical school and this is a Some cardiology conference. And the first talk was talking about how what they're going to do is they're going to take stem cells from another heart and then harvest them in another cup and then grow the heart and then implant that new better heart into someone else.
And everyone was like, oh, this is the coolest thing in the world. And then the next talker came up and is like, All right, guys, let's get back to reality. That's a thousand years in the future. And I think that's the fun part of conferences. It gets you super excited because you hear about these things that you sound like sci-fi. And then you also get a good mix of the critical realities.
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the great thing about the conference. Yeah. Yeah. The stuff in the future, the clinical realities, the stuff that's coming up, and the snacks also.
So are you going to tell us more about all the cool science that you learned the meeting this year?
Yeah, well, I think that's off the top of my head. Those are kind of the take-home points there. So I think that's the main point. I do think posterior targets are going to be a big thing. There's a lot of buzz about stimulating the precuneus, which is great. Some area of the brain I hadn't given a thought to in a long time, but that's kind of midline anterior to the occipital cortex.
But yeah, I think there's a lot of cool science going on.
But it seems like today's episode, you want to focus more on the snacks. Yeah.
Indeed, I do. Yes. Yeah. I think it makes sense to focus more on the snacks today. And there was actually some intrigue around the hors d'oeuvres. I think there's been the budget of the Clinical TMS Society for the hors d'oeuvres was smaller this year compared to the other years. Yes.
Sounds like a drama.
It is indeed a drama. Yeah. So the budget for it was small, which I mean, I'm all for fiscal responsibility and the Clinical TMS Society needs to be careful about how it spends its money. And in full transparency, I'm actually a member of the board of the Clinical TMS Society. So I'm in favor of fiscal responsibility with the society. But yeah, the hors d'oeuvres were, you know, People had varying opinions.
Personally, I thought the hors d'oeuvres were okay, but I have low standards, and those standards were met or exceeded, so that was okay. But other people disagreed. Other people disagreed. And so, yeah, I think when I interviewed the other people at the Clinical TMS Society, the first thing I wanted to ask them was to see their opinion about the hors d'oeuvres. And really, I just thought that was a good way to start a conversation.
Well, why don't we take a listen?
Let's do that. Let's do that.
All right. All right. We have Dr. Kim Kress from Tennessee. Say hi, Kim.
Hi.
Hi. Yeah. So, Kim, here's what I really want to know. Kim is a highly respected physician, formerly president of the Clinical TMS Society. And what I really want to know is, can you comment on the quality of the hors d'oeuvres?
The hors d'oeuvres. Well, I would say that they are very bland and very institutional. So not a high rating from my perspective.
Not a high rating. Okay. Oh, follow up. Follow up question. Follow up question. And I'm only asking this because I know Kim is very smart. Can you spell hors d'oeuvres?
Oh, no.
You should have seen the expression on Kim's face.
I don't even want to guess that. I can get out my phone.
I can't spell it either. All right. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Now we have Dr. Mark Gunderson here. Say hi, Dr. Gunderson. Hello.
Hello.
Hi. So what I want to know is what is your opinion of the hors d'oeuvres?
Well, that's a tough question because I'm a pretty picky eater. So finding hors d'oeuvres that are palatable is always tough. They've been okay. I found a few things. Okay.
So kind of mediocre and not too bad. Yeah. They're okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Follow-up question. Follow-up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
Not even close. It starts with an E maybe or an O.
Good guess. And I don't know how to spell it either. Okay. All right. All right. We have Dr. Paul Karakin, eminent scientist. And I want to ask you, what is your opinion of the hors d'oeuvres tonight?
I thought they were fantastic. This is really one of the primary reasons I come to the Clinical TMS Society is the hors d'oeuvres. I think I had a dumpling, I had a spring roll. There are too many of them to hold on to. So thank you for asking.
You're welcome. You're very welcome. So follow-up question, follow-up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
Not without some ChatGPT help.
Same here. Thank you.
All right. So tell me a little bit more about the CTMSS. You know, how long was it? It was there. Give me that rundown.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the Clinical TMS Society has been around for several years. It has more than a thousand members in it now. It's an international society. Most of the members are in the United States or Canada, but we have a Quite a few members from Europe and Asia and Latin America and elsewhere. The meeting itself is there were more than 700 people there at the meeting.
So the meeting has gotten progressively bigger every year and it rotates. It's in different cities in different years. You know, this year it was in Boston. Last year it was in London. Don't remember where it was the year before that, but we, we, we rotate around to different locations that next year is going to be in Chicago.
Oh, very nice.
A little, little closer to me though. Yeah.
And how, how long was the conference? You might've already said it.
Oh yeah. It was about, about three days to two and a half to three days worth.
Okay. So, so it's a lot of cool lectures. What else is the clinical team that society do?
Well, yeah, so there's lectures and workshops, and the Clinical TMS Society also has kind of a class or an introduction class to TMS. It's called PULSES, which is a really great training course that the Clinical TMS Society runs. So they had the PULSES course immediately before the Clinical TMS Society meeting also. So that's another thing they had going on. But so there's lots of lectures, lots of research posters.
A lot of vendors were there. All of the device makers brought their devices. And there's this big hall where you could talk to the different companies, play with their toys, look at their devices. And that was especially fun. So we got to meet the vendors and meet the stuff. And yeah, and then there's also socializing.
Very cool. It sounds like you're being, are you being paid right now to be advertising them?
I am not. No, no. Here I am advertising the Clinical TMS Society and I am not getting paid. It would be cooler if I was, but no, not being paid for this.
All right. Let's get back to some of the more, the spellings we have left.
Sounds good. Sounds good. Let's get some more spellings.
So I think the food overall has been pretty good compared to other conferences. The orders specifically for the poster session were underwhelming.
Underwhelming. Thank you, Dr. Barber. Thank you, Dr. Barber. So follow up question here. Follow up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
No.
All right. Thank you very much. All right. Now we have with us one of the luminaries in the TMS field, Dr. Sean Siddiqui. Say hi, Sean.
Hi, Sean.
That was good.
That was good.
It does seem like a Steve Harvey joke. So first question. So you moved from St. Louis to Boston and you've been in Boston for a while. Which baseball team do you root for?
I'm a lifelong Cardinals fan. It's not going to change.
Thank God. Lifelong Cardinals fan. I'm glad to hear that. Okay.
I can not be a lifelong Rams fan, though, because they did us dirty.
They did. They did do us dirty. So we're here in Boston now. So how is your flight?
Well, I live a mile away.
One mile away? Yeah, one mile. So it was a short flight?
I guess 20 minutes. Yeah, right.
20 minutes. Oh, because it's Boston, so it's congested, I guess. Well, I walk. Was it seriously a 20-minute walk?
Yeah.
That's amazing. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you.
Glad to be here and make dad jokes. Thanks.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
All right, Dr. Kevin Rossi, my question for you is, can you tell me what you think about the hors d'oeuvres?
Well, the hors d'oeuvres have been surprisingly tasty and light options, vegetarian and non-vegetarian options. I'm mostly vegetarian, so I like that.
Interesting take. Thank you. Okay. Follow-up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
H-O-R-S-D apostrophe O-U-E-R-V-E.
I don't even know, but that sounds like it might be right. Holy cow. Oh, you took French. Okay. Well, I'm going to check that and see if it's right because no one's gotten it right so far. And we're back. All right.
Well, that was fun. So, you know, I think one thing I noticed, at least for me, you know, because the people at the meeting are all like super smart people. It was kind of, I mean, friendly people who I like, kind of intimidating, like, whoa, these are so just really smart people. So it's kind of fun to see if they can spell and find out that they can't.
Yeah, you definitely see that. People who are very, very smart. It takes different types of intelligence. There's some brilliant people who can't spell a dang word.
Exactly. Especially the word hors d'oeuvres. I don't know if this came across in the recording or not, but before I started interviewing people, to me, I just assumed that No one would even come close to being able to spell the word. I thought no one would succeed, no matter how smart they were. And because of that, I didn't even check myself. I didn't even learn how to spell it myself.
I mean, I didn't even bother to check because I assumed no one else knew how to spell it either. So there were a couple of times where the person I was interviewing had like a near miss where they almost spelled the word correctly. And like a total dummy, I was like, oh, I think that's right. Oh, my gosh. But it wasn't right. When I went back and checked, they were wrong.
In your defense, there's so many vowels. It's impossible. I'll never have it. It'll never be in my brain.
Right. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it'll ever be in my brain either. But yeah, there's all these problems. You know, the word hors d'oeuvres and for our listeners, I will go over the spelling of hors d'oeuvres in just a little bit. But yeah, you know, it starts with an H and there's like a space and an apostrophe and there's all these counterintuitive vowels. I mean, how do the French have so many vowels?
I don't quite understand that.
Did anyone actually get it right?
Yes. Yes. One person got it right. Exactly. One person got it right. And he is he is an hors d'oeuvres hero.
All right. Let's let's keep it going.
That sounds good.
OK, here we go.
OK, Dr. Irfan Handu from Kansas City.
Yeah, I thought the hors d'oeuvres were great. Nice variety here in Boston.
All right. Thank you. And follow up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
H-O-R, then there's apostrophe D, and then O-U-E-R-V-E-S. Oh my
gosh, I think that's right. How did you do that?
Well, I hope we as shrinks can know some spelling.
Well, you're a better speller than I am. Thank you so much. All right, Dr. Jakob Green, can you tell me your opinion of the hors d'oeuvres?
I sadly did not get the chance to eat the hors d'oeuvres. However, I'm currently looking at the posters and this science is delicious.
They are delicious. Yes, yes. Okay. All right. Oh, so the follow up question is, can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
Oof, that's a tough one. Probably H-O-R. Maybe an S. D-O-U-R-V-E-S?
You know, that's either right or it's close to right. And you know, as I ask a whole bunch of people that question, I'm realizing everybody is a better speller than me because I have no idea. So good job, Dr. Green. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, we got Dr. Alvin Lau. So can you tell me, Dr. Lau, what do you think about the hors d'oeuvres?
You know, it was excellent selection. I really appreciate the turkey and the rye bread. Excellent, great taste. Goes really well with the wine.
So turkey and rye pairs with wine?
Good with the wine. It was excellent taste. Really appreciated it.
Is that normally paired with white wine or red wine?
You know, I generally do it with the white, but I had a little bit of a rosé, and that was excellent. So I thought it was a really good time.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Oh, follow-up question. Can you spell the word hors d'oeuvres?
H-O-R-S space d'apostrophe O-E-U-V-R-E-S?
Oh, my gosh. I think that's right.
I nailed it.
I think you nailed it.
All right. Shout out to Dr. Lau. Congrats to anyone who got even remotely close. Anyone who got the H, really.
I know. Yeah. Anyone who got the H. Yeah. Yeah. But... Shout out to Dr. Lau. I thought that was just amazing that he actually knew how to spell the word hors d'oeuvres. I've got to catch up with him sometime and see how on earth did he know that? Did he take French in high school or is he just a really, really good speller?
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got to wonder about that.
Well, don't leave us hanging. How do you actually spell it?
Oh, yeah, yeah, here we go. Okay, so I'll do the spelling here. Okay, so if everybody's ready, it is H-O-R-S space D apostrophe O-E-U-V-R-E-S. That is how you spell hors d'oeuvres. Never would have guessed it in a million years.
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable. Yes.
Now we know.
That's right. I think I've already forgotten how to spell hors d'oeuvres. But to our listeners, if you're into that kind of thing, I encourage you to learn that. All right.
Great.
Good party trick.
Yeah.
All right. Well, that was fun. That was fun. Yeah.
Yeah. Closes out, Dr. Harvey.
All right. Sounds good. So, yeah. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. This was a particularly fun show for us, at least. Hope you enjoyed the show. And if you didn't, you know, maybe you're just hangry. Go eat some hors d'oeuvres.
All right. Sounds good.
All right. See you later.